Parental Expectations

[Polly]

I am not a parent this lifetime.  Is it considered "normal" for parents to expect that their children owe them from cradle to grave and that the parents take precedence over the adult children's relationships?  My parents weren't like that but is this behavior wide-spread and common?

[DreamTime]

I can't reply for everyone, but for me, I do not expect anything from my girls. I do wish that they will be more successful and wealthy than I was... And I would NEVER make my girls choose me over their relationships. That would be so very unfair and selfish.  I know that there are parents (usually mothers I would say) that are like this - unfortunately my one sister was one of them - but I always thought that that was terrible.

[Get Boldened]

Eh, like for me, my parents are very traditional and my dad had once said if I could work I should give support back to them. I know someone who knows a guy whom give a portion of his check to his parents every month. I hope when my parents start getting their social security benefits after they retire that they'll change their minds. I hope it should cover their living expenses.

[AndrewX]

Is it considered "normal" for parents to expect that their children owe them from cradle to grave and that the parents take precedence over the adult children's relationships?

[/quote]Very interesting question Polly.

I can only speak from my own experiences and they are quite substantial having come from a conservative and socially altered (immigrant) family and relatives.  I also have first hand knowledge of how numerous other cultures here in Australia regard this issue, especially European and Middle Eastern cultures like Lebanese and Turks as there were many I came into contact with throughout my entire educational years.

Generally speaking I have found there are 4 types of standards followed by 2 types of outcomes irrespective to the culture involved.  They're all the same in way, some more some less, but it averages out in the end.

The 1st standard is of those families that simply do not subscribe to such practices.  They can be found in all cultures, but the Anglo-Saxons are the ones who mostly live this way, which is my preferred manner any day.  In that I mean they do NOT expect much for their offspring and encourage they leave home from an early but mature age to go find their way in the world.  IMO, there is no better way as it makes real people out of the children as fast as possible.  The supremacy of such mannerism is self evident in the fact that it is only in this 'standard' that there are no bad or disastrous consequences that occur because of it in the future from the offspring onto the parents.  This is a direct result of the children being given their own 'air' to do as they wish with their lives and were not pressured into a lifestyle they did not want. 

The 2nd standard is of those families that do expect that their children owe them, but not necessarily from the cradle to the grave.  These kinds of mannerisms are usually accompanied with the NON belief that the parents necessarily take precedence over the adult children's relationships.  These are usually parents who believe that once a child is capable of earning a living that they can start paying their share, or a little more, of the household expenses... considering that they are old enough to leave home and start their own but have chosen not to.  This is fair enough IMO... why should the NOT contribute to their share of 'consumption' is they are capable of doing so?  In this standard of behavior these are 2 possible outcome in the end of which 1 is OK, but the other can be nasty.

1st outcome... occurs when the parents are NOT greedy in essence and only ask for the child to pay their true fair share of the household's running costs.  In this situation all's well because the parent’s intent is also.  In this category of behavior there are, generally speaking, all races of people.

2nd outcome... occurs when the parents are GREEDY and use the plight of the child having to contribute as an excuse to enslave them financial.  They either ask substantially more than they should, or they ask for most everything the child makes.  The latter is self perpetuating as the adult child is never given a real chance to save any money of their own to allow them to then go out and buy a house and move out.  When the child is made to contribute more, but not all, they do end up becoming disillusioned with it all after they meet a good partner and find they wanting to move away from home and live with them.  Depending on the parents, they may start putting down their child’s partner unjustly in an effort to keep them at home as their own money spinner.  But this can often have the opposite effect and drive of driving the child away faster if the child is not too much of an idiot.  When the parents make the child work just for them, then they will live to regret it as the child will one day wake up to them and begin revolting and resenting them.  Depending on the child, this hatred can be a little or a lot.  Either way, if you are the kind of parent that genuinely wants to have your child around all your life and to have them respect you and not spite you, then you'll be in for a rude awakening one day.  In either case, when the parents are greedy and only care for themselves it will not lead to many happy family reunions after the child has woken up to them.  In this category of behavior there are, generally speaking, there are mainly those of European and Middle Eastern decent with very few if any at all Anglo-Saxons in it. 

The 3rd standard is of those families whose parents do expect that their children owe them from cradle to grave and that they do expect to take precedence over the adult children's relationships.  This mannerism is one which we see the child being made to work for the parents and live out its love life in the image of the parents.  IOW, the child is turned into a robot to serve all the needs and wishes of the parents without any consideration to its own wants and wishes.  There are also 2 types of outcomes to this scenario.

1st outcome... is one of neutrality throughout the lives of the parents as a direct result of the child being an absolute idiot without any sense of self and of no will power.  Strangely enough, this is the most common outcome in such families as they raise their children in a manner which prepares them psychologically to surrender all their rights and dreams.  This is why they live on even in today’s society.  In this category of behavior there are, generally speaking, the lower class of the Europeans and the lower to middle class of the Middle Eastern families; I have never found an Anglo Saxon family to practice such mannerisms, though there may be a very few that do.

2nd outcome... is one which varies in consequence from disastrous to outright homicidal and or suicidal endings.  This outcome can only occur when BOTH the parents and the child are 'headstrong' characters, but in the earlier years of the adult-child's life the parents 'headstrongness' exceeds that of the child's but is overtaken in time with the child's coming of age.  Let me say this, without the fear of contradiction that if anyone happens to live NEXT DOOR to such a family they will wish they never moved into their house.lolol Families such as these exhibit continuous horrific sounding arguments that often result in physical contact amongst each other throughout their entire existence.  Not just when the child has grown up, but even as the child is growing from their adolescence and onwards.  What's really sick about the poor neighbors to such dwellings is that they find themselves randomly having their own inner peace disturbed by being subjected to such nerve-racking behavior and horrendous sounding outbursts...usually at times when they most need their peace and rest...i.e. night times and weekends.  Once the child has woken up to the fact that all they need do to get their own way is to simply stand up for it, then the party is over for the parents and the nightmare begins.  If their child does not go to the extent of  killing them in the end, without wanting to on the child's behalf, they will make their parents WISH that they were dead anyway.lol  The child shall forever there after treat his parents with the highest level of contempt and spite, even when not consciously wanting to.  Every contact it has with its parents from there on will be one that can be more likened to 2 worst enemies bumping into each other rather than 2 friends conferring.  Also, I have noticed in this scenario that once the child has made there move and started their own way that they are peaceful within themselves and end up having other relationships that are fulfilling with new more compatible partners.  So in the end, more often that not, the parents are the ones that lose, not the child.  This I put down to the child having realized that it was not their fault for following his parents lead as they presented it to him in a deceiving way knowing his lower level of resolve in his younger years that was in fact developed/conditioned into him by themselves anyway.  In this category of behavior there are, generally speaking, there are a few lower class Europeans and middle class Middle Easterners but more lower class Middle Easterns than anyone else... this level of behavior I have witnessed run rampant in the latter class.  I am yet to even hear of any Anglo-Saxons that behave in this way.  Any family that practices such ways is without doubt your quintessential disjointed family is ever there was one...  Hillbillies that is.   

The 4th standard is of those families whose parents do NOT expect that their children owe them from cradle to grave BUT they do expect to take precedence over the adult children's relationships.  This mannerism is one which we see the child being freedom to work and earn their own money or just chip in their share only and keep the rest of their earnings, but (usually) without making it obvious at first,  the parents demand the child marries only the type of the partner that they aspire to.  There are also 2 types of outcomes to this scenario.

1st outcome... is one of neutrality throughout the lives of the parents as the child simply leaves them and does as he chooses anyway as they are financially capable of doing so.  No real problems occur in this scenario, other than short lived fallout with the parents upon departure that is soon remedied with the realization of the parents getting on with life.  In this category of behavior there are, generally speaking, ALL social classes of ALL races of people excluding NONE.

2nd outcome... is when the child succumbs to his or her parent's will and do make the wrong decision concerning their partner by discontinuing their relationship with them, because that's when they first find out about their parent's ways/twist... is when they bring their self chosen partner home to introduce to them... as till then their parents have given them the illusion of freedom in the family when selecting a partner for life - and they consolidated it by NOT attempting to introduce them to other partners themselves as in a proxy introduction.  This outcome also usually but not always occurs when BOTH the parents and the child are 'headstrong' characters.  The outcome in such situations is more often than not one of discontent/dislike towards the parents and will in the end alienate both the parents and the child for reasons of mistrust by the child towards the parents, and a sort of spiteful belittlement from the parents with the child for not having accepted their ways and instead mocking them for having wanted it as such.  This scenario can also culminate into the worst of situations, especially if both parties remain living together.  It best they separate to avoid the worst of outcomes and to have any chance of some form of reconciliation in the distant future.   In this category of behavior there are, generally speaking, ALL social classes of ALL races of people.  Though it does tend to occur more frequently in lower to middle class Europeans and all classes of Middle Easterners. 

That's been my observations of it anyway Polly... and keep in mind I have analyzed it using only the Anglo-Saxon, European and Middle Eastern people as they are the ones most prevalent in my circles of life.  Though I think most others can fall into 1 of these 3 types anyway.

[Polly]

DT, you sound like how I would want to be if I had children.  I do not have brothers so I have not been able to witness a mother/son dynamic up close until now.  That is the situation I am in -- being the girlfriend of the son and living with the aging mother (for 22 months so far) whose husband died almost two years ago and us moving in with her at her demand so that she wasn't alone.  The hidden, unconscious expectation being that the son would fill the disceased father's shoes in almost all ways and the house being left to the son having many conditions and strings attached for over ten years now.

GB, my parents never needed help but if I had adequate funds and they were in a bad situation financially I would want to help them in that way.

Andrew, thanks for the thesis.  :-)  You have given me lots to think about.  I can identify with many things you wrote.

I am open to all comments from anyone here.  I will share more of my story later.

[Polly]

My mother left my sisters and I some money after she died. This was a complete shock as I wasn't really expecting it. She never spoke of it while she was alive. In this way, my mother never held any future legacy over my head.

My father will leave my sisters and I whatever is left of his legacy. He has never used that legacy to try and manipulate me to conform to any wishes. Boy, I am going to have to write him a letter very quickly and thank him for not being the other way!

I am the type of person who wants everything to be fair to everyone involved if I am part of a situation. I also believe that any situation not built on fairness to all will eventually crumble.

[DreamTime]

You know, I didn't even think about the situation when parents get old.  That can be a touchy subject with a lot of people.

My dad is now 92 years old. He has been in and out of hospitals since I was 3 or 4 years old and we never expected him to outlive my mom. But he did, when my mom died suddenly from a brain aneurysm 14 years ago. After she died, he moved in with my oldest sister - she was divorced and all her kids were grown, plus she felt like she owed him because she had caused them so much trouble as she was growing up. But then my sister died from cancer about 3 years ago, and that left my other 2 sisters (I was not included since I lived out of state and he did not want to move). My second oldest sister took him in since my number 3 sister has many mental problems. But then he needed to go into a nursing home since he kept on having mini-strokes and he needed more help than my sister could give him. Well he hated (and still hates) having to live there. He just doesn't understand that he can not live on his own - which is what he wants. But all I hear from my sisters is complaints about dad. How they have to do all his paperwork, how they have to go and visit him, how this one or that one didn't go and visit him, etc., etc. 

I do not want to put that kind of burden on my girls. Even though, right now, all of them say that I could come and live with them. (Yeah, they say that now because I still have all my facilities, plus I'm a built in babysitter.) But I wonder how they would feel if I was like my dad - forgetting things, not being able to walk without help, etc. Personally, I think I would like to die before I get too old to take care of myself and spare my kids the responsibility of taking care of me.

As far as inheritences...I wish I could leave something for my girls, but if things keep on going as they are, they better not hold their breath for anything from me. Just like my sisters and I all know that we will get nothing from my parents as they never had anything their whole lives.

[Polly]

What you describe, Dream Time, is what I have seen happen in other families, too.  It is very common. 

I've been bearing the brunt of the hardships here with an aging woman who is angry about the loss of her physical and mental abilities and the way life was when her husband was alive while the daughters and granddaughters can visit or call, enjoy their mother/grandmother, call her on the phone and then go back to their own lives.  She can walk and still drive at almost 85 but does not have strength to do what she once did and the mind deterioration really freaks me out sometimes.

Many people really have a hard time when an aging parent becomes dependent in so many ways and whose mind does not work the way it did.  I've never been exposed to this before.  My mother was well-taken care of by her younger husband and my father has the means to pay for help or he asks friends for help.  He is still in good health though at age 79 except for having to wear braces on his lower legs to help him walk.  Otherwise, he exercizes, has a good diet, has massages, has friends, reads, does everything in moderation, travels, etc.

 

 

[DreamTime]

Yeah, I hope that I am able to take care of myself for quite awhile. I was just talking to my youngest daughter and was telling her about this thread. I told her what I said, and she said that "none of us girls would feel that way about you." She said that my sisters are "different." But, having experienced how my sisters are, I find it really hard to think in any other way. I can just hear them saying: "I had mom last month, it's your turn this month." "No, I don't want mom, I just had her..." :lol:

[Astrojewels]

Polly,
I do see a fair bit of this, that the parents consider the child their property and because they gave them life, fed them and provided things they somehow owe them. Like they only had the child to secure their senior years. I also see parents with young children saying stuff like I bought you this so you should do that. I see what you are saying, but adult relationships can be the same also, the tit for tat scenario.
Parenting is one of the only things that anyone can do on a physical level, yet so many fail on the spiritual/emotional level.
Parenting is difficult because you have control of another’s life for many years, and how you choose to use that control is completely individual.
Personally, I have set expectations on my children but never made them feel they owe me, if anything it would be that I owe them for showing me how special I feel to be their mother. I have always put focus on their own ability to make decisions and choices, to feel rather than think their way through life, and that I am always supportive.
If you do it in a balanced way, you do not have to ask for anything, it just becomes part of the relationship, so there is naturally a great deal of respect and giving from the parent and child.