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Obsessive Debunking Disorder (ODD)?
#41
We all know that nobody would watch a TV show, or movie - read fiction or a blog without a certain amount of conflict. Conflict draws attention.

The issue is how respectully disagreements or conflicting opinions are handled and if there's a pattern of debunking which makes newcomers feel unwelcome and regulars intimidated to post.

We've felt the "chill" here at HCF when it's been so quiet for lengthy periods of time. There are a number of reasons probably, but focusing exclusively on debunking the source instead of the information on display is a surefire way to douse the fires of discussion.

Also, a forum like this is very rare. It's not a psy-op whereby you run afoul of a managed opposition's "secret info" and then get your posts deleted or you get kicked off. That's happened to some HCF members before. GLP, Avalon, ATS, David Icke Forum, and of course...((ExPaNsIoNs)) heehee come to mind.

Because a forum like this IS so rare - it is of the utmost importance not to blow it, and shut down a diverse and unconventional pov. right out of the starting gate. Let the poor sod at least try to articulate an argument and then...

YOU CAN NAIL 'EM! hehehe! Tongue  ...sniggers...
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#42
Richard said.. " You might think it's challenging them but members that have left here have said it's discouraging to post anything because you come along and attack them."


I stand by what I said. I was the one who was attacked after questioning or not agreeing with them. Non cherry picked or otherwise tampered with evidence will prove that.


This forum had two moderators during the time you are referring to. If I was such an issue why was it not addressed then?


AJ would have at least said something in private if she thought I was out of line.


It's your forum Richard. Why didn't you raise the issue then?


 I'll say it again. There is an ignore feature that members can use.



Richard said ..." I didn't say you left because of GWSOL leaving I said you 2 quit posting when Elizabeth came here. You 2 thought she was a spy."


GWSOL and I were posting when Elizabeth was here.


At the time you are referring to there was a lot of questioning by some as to who among the newcomers was possibly a "spy " or not. Much of this came about because you claimed the forum was hacked while you were gone. Also there actually were spies here at that time.

I posted very infrequently after being attacked for speaking against SJ in 2005 or 2006. Then I came back and left in 2011.

Also, I never said that GWSOL and I were the first to speak out against Stewart here. I said "two of the first". I know very well that Michael was the first.
 I was not aware of the SOC forum until much later.

There was no "crime'" committed by GWSOL and I . You're spinning to suit your agenda.
You suddenly began using GWSOL's real name ( when most everyone else used an online handle) in another forum associated with this one when you became angry at him.
You were the one having a tantrum.


Also there was weirdness with disappearing posts and posts some could see and others couldn't when they were supposed to have had access to them .




In the end it's your forum Richard.
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#43
(05-29-2013, 09:02 PM)Richard Wrote:
(05-29-2013, 08:52 AM)Octahedron Wrote:
(05-28-2013, 09:11 PM)Richard Wrote: [quote pid='61621' dateline='1369755449']
... 
GWSOL and I were two of the very first to speak out about the Swerdlows.Initially we were both attacked for  that. That was my main purpose here .Them and many others like them that were being touted around here.

You're wrong. Michael was the first.

We as the old crew were already busy with that on the Australian SOC forum.

We already had the troubles with SJ at expansions forum at summer 2005, even before HCF was started up. Remember the attacks on Avatar and silverinfinity by S, and of course the viking stories at SOC and expansions forum..

This is true. Members at Rodrigo's tried to debunk the swerdlows but Rodrigo didn't like that and he would put an end to it.

At the unofficial David Icke forum they were debunking the swerdlows too. ATF, and GLP they did too. Almost every forum on the net they were debunking the swerdlows so it's hard to say who was first. On this forum Micheal was first. Andrew was second. GWSOL was third. I was forth and after that there was quiet a few members debunking the swerdlows.
[/quote]

True, very true. Not to forget other websites who did debunk S and at the same time then still were even more in love with David Icke !



Strange internet !
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#44
(05-30-2013, 07:46 AM)Mercy Now Wrote: I stand by what I said. I was the one who was attacked after questioning or not agreeing with them. Non cherry picked or otherwise tampered with evidence will prove that.

I have no idea what you're talking about unless you're talking you and MC always bashing heads with each other.

This forum had two moderators during the time you are referring to. If I was such an issue why was it not addressed then?

AJ would have at least said something in private if she thought I was out of line.

I don't know what you're referring to. AJ has been gone for almost 4 years. Even if she was here she would let you slide because you 2 were friends. Like the war you and GWSOL started in the KBA thread. She said something to everyone but you and GWSOL and the rest of the members were outraged by that.

 I'll say it again. There is an ignore feature that members can use.


For some reason members don't want to use the ignore feature. I tried to get members to use it when everyone was going crazy over Xanthas being here. Yukesam was outraged that I said to use the ignore feature. He wanted her banned. She left on her own because she was tired of members attacking her. Yukesam left then too.

GWSOL and I were posting when Elizabeth was here.

You 2 were only posting in the get rid of Elizabeth thread and when you 2 realized I wasn't going to ban her is when you 2 quit posting.

At the time you are referring to there was a lot of questioning by some as to who among the newcomers was possibly a "spy " or not. Much of this came about because you claimed the forum was hacked while you were gone. Also there actually were spies here at that time.

Yes I remember you 2 thought every new member was a spy but I know there's some spies here and I really don't care. I can't keep them out so why worry about it.

I posted very infrequently after being attacked for speaking against SJ in 2005 or 2006. Then I came back and left in 2011.

A review of your posts says otherwise.

There was no "crime'" committed by GWSOL and I . You're spinning to suit your agenda.

I never said there was a crime. Why are you making that up?

You suddenly began using GWSOL's real name ( when most everyone else used an online handle) in another forum associated with this one when you became angry at him.
You were the one having a tantrum.


I don't ever remember using his name but he threw huge fit over Elisabeth being allowed here. The posts are still here in storage to prove it. He said he was going to start his own forum. That's when you 2 quit posting.

Also there was weirdness with disappearing posts and posts some could see and others couldn't when they were supposed to have had access to them .

Nothing like that ever happened. You can't set threads where only some people see them unless you're talking about senior members can't see advanced members threads.
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#45
(05-30-2013, 05:54 PM)Octahedron Wrote: True, very true. Not to forget other websites who did debunk S and at the same time then still were even more in love with David Icke !

If I had to guess where the debunking first took place it would be the Dutch forum called The Biggest Secret. Those are the oldest threads I can remember.
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#46
(05-31-2013, 01:52 AM)Richard Wrote:
(05-30-2013, 07:46 AM)Mercy Now Wrote: I stand by what I said. I was the one who was attacked after questioning or not agreeing with them. Non cherry picked or otherwise tampered with evidence will prove that.

I have no idea what you're talking about unless you're talking you and MC always bashing heads with each other.

This forum had two moderators during the time you are referring to. If I was such an issue why was it not addressed then?

AJ would have at least said something in private if she thought I was out of line.

I don't know what you're referring to. AJ has been gone for almost 4 years. Even if she was here she would let you slide because you 2 were friends. Like the war you and GWSOL started in the KBA thread. She said something to everyone but you and GWSOL and the rest of the members were outraged by that.

 I'll say it again. There is an ignore feature that members can use.


For some reason members don't want to use the ignore feature. I tried to get members to use it when everyone was going crazy over Xanthas being here. Yukesam was outraged that I said to use the ignore feature. He wanted her banned. She left on her own because she was tired of members attacking her. Yukesam left then too.

GWSOL and I were posting when Elizabeth was here.

You 2 were only posting in the get rid of Elizabeth thread and when you 2 realized I wasn't going to ban her is when you 2 quit posting.

At the time you are referring to there was a lot of questioning by some as to who among the newcomers was possibly a "spy " or not. Much of this came about because you claimed the forum was hacked while you were gone. Also there actually were spies here at that time.

Yes I remember you 2 thought every new member was a spy but I know there's some spies here and I really don't care. I can't keep them out so why worry about it.

I posted very infrequently after being attacked for speaking against SJ in 2005 or 2006. Then I came back and left in 2011.

A review of your posts says otherwise.

There was no "crime'" committed by GWSOL and I . You're spinning to suit your agenda.

I never said there was a crime. Why are you making that up?

You suddenly began using GWSOL's real name ( when most everyone else used an online handle) in another forum associated with this one when you became angry at him.
You were the one having a tantrum.


I don't ever remember using his name but he threw huge fit over Elisabeth being allowed here. The posts are still here in storage to prove it. He said he was going to start his own forum. That's when you 2 quit posting.

Also there was weirdness with disappearing posts and posts some could see and others couldn't when they were supposed to have had access to them .

Nothing like that ever happened. You can't set threads where only some people see them unless you're talking about senior members can't see advanced members threads.

AJ retired as a moderator in 2010 but continued to post until 2012.

Yes AJ was/is my friend and she is a fair person and would have at least said something in private if I was out of line.

I think William would have as well.


 You were the one who referred to GWSOL and I as partners in "crime".


Your report of what happened is pure spin .


GWSOL left because YOU didn't respect his privacy . Period.

There were at least 4 other people who were suspicious of Elisabeth (and other newcomers) at that time .
 
As one of those members so wisely said "she(Elisabeth) is new and unproven".

You got mad at GWSOL because he eloquently stated his reasons for concern about our privacy and questioned your "intuition"  which made you angry. That's when you used his real name ,intentionally, so he would leave. He left and rightly so.

There WAS disappearing post and post manipulation. I don't know who was doing it but it was happening and as I stated there was an off forum discussion site concerning that.

I stand corrected. I did post in 2012. (Time is running together for me.)


But since we're keeping score......

BTW...I joined here in mid Dec. 2007. My time spent here is :2days 22 hours 26 min 18 sec

Elisabeth joined 9/27/2011 . Her time spent here is :1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours 34 min 48 sec


 
If new members were leaving because of me you should have said something then.

Ultimately it's your responsibility Richard as it's your forum.
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#47
(05-29-2013, 08:32 PM)millipodium Wrote: Filter I disagree that you should take a member personal attachment to a theory into acount, as long as it's not a direct personal attack.  Things do get emotional, but that's a plus to forum conversations.  Everybody is emotionally invested in their beliefs, even if they are delusional.  That's why according to social etiquette, religion and politics are not discussed, but this board would be dead if we didn't slaughter everybody's sacred cows.

Millipodium, I think there are different ways you can debunk, challenge or question so-called holy cows, someone's beliefs, convictions or even someone's motives. What I regularly see is a type of debunking that is very much coming forth out of someone's ego; a self-centered, sometimes downright antagonizing manner of behaving. Egotistical debunking is perhaps as I could call that. I don't really like that, and, also from my own experience, that easily creates an unpleasant and thick type of energy and tension. 
That's perhaps also more or less what you see in for instance the political arena's, and that hasn't led, and won't ever lead to much good, in my view. 

I think the thing is also, of course and as you also pointed out, that the realms of conspiracy theories, spiritual and worldly beliefs are very personal, essential and basic matters. It is much more personal than when you are for example dealing with matters like knitting or arranging flowers. You are dealing with very fundamental matters. Probably even the most fundamental.
So, in that respect, I think it is certainly not so strange that forums that deal with conspiracy related matters are often so heavily emotionally charged, including fights, tensions, distrust, alpha males and females, curious and dubious personalities, and all kinds of nasty and virulent behaviour. It is confusing, uncertain and insecure business! Scary, as well.

There is obviously also more paranoia on conspiracy related forums in comparison with forums about for example knitting. lol ;-)
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#48
Thanks for reminding me Filter.


Richard at the time you implied we were being "paranoid".

Paranoia is generally characterized as irrational. I see nothing irrational in being cautious about who is given access to private spaces especially since we were hacked(we were advised to change our passwords) and there were known spies.

These were people who had every reason to be concerned based on their actual experiences .
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#49
In short, Paranoia is excessive suspicion, I think. Being delusional, seeing things that are not really there.
Also, when you are paranoid you usually have no realistic insight in your own disease/malady; you don't realize it and cannot be convinced of it.

I have no idea of possible spies on this forum. What can or would a possible spy do on a forum like this, I'm wondering. 
Also, a by some deemed questionable personality isn't automatically or necessarily a spy, of course. 
There are all kinds of queer birds and other eccentrics and odd people out there, who are also active on the internet. That is something different than a spy who is paid to be a secret agent and deliberately infiltrates behind enemy lines and secretively gathers information.

If a high authority for whatever reason really wants to monitor and spy on a forum like this, private protected sections won't protect you against that, I assume. You don't need to become a member either, all you need is the right technology. I understand that the Swerdlow team has (probably) messed with the panels and interface of this forum before. 
I would gather that in the private parts the more personal matters are discussed. A private part on a forum on the internet is of course still only private to a certain degree anyway.
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#50
(05-31-2013, 07:21 PM)Mercy Now Wrote: AJ retired as a moderator in 2010 but continued to post until 2012.

She retired right after the KBA war. She shut the forum down and left as moderator. When I came back I opened the forum back up and dealt with the mess that was left for me.

I really don't understand why you and GWSOL have to attack every person that talks about the KBA
. It's like you 2 aren't happy until you can get everyone on the forum to think like you do. Why can't you just leave those people alone. If they want to believe then let them believe. Why keep attacking them? You know you're never change their minds, so what is the point of attacking them?

Yes AJ was/is my friend and she is a fair person and would have at least said something in private if I was out of line.

Well she didn't and that's why everyone exploded with anger. You started the KBA war and AJ didn't say anything to you. Don't you remember all that? The backlash from AJ not saying to you caused everyone to blow up. So instead of saying something to you she closed the forum.

I think William would have as well.

William is to nice of a guy to say anything. Plus he is hardly here.

 You were the one who referred to GWSOL and I as partners in "crime".

That's a phrase. I'm sure you've heard it a million times or more.

Your report of what happened is pure spin .

No spin. I have proof. I have the threads and Octahedron as a witness.

GWSOL left because YOU didn't respect his privacy . Period.

Wrong again.

There were at least 4 other people who were suspicious of Elisabeth (and other newcomers) at that time .

Who are the other 2?
 
You got mad at GWSOL because he eloquently stated his reasons for concern about our privacy and questioned your "intuition"  which made you angry. That's when you used his real name ,intentionally, so he would leave. He left and rightly so.

I don't get mad. I'm not a super emotional person like some of the members here. Find me a post where I was mad. Also find me the post where I used his name. Even if I did, why be such a crybaby over it? Everyone knows who I am. I don't hide behind made up names.

There WAS disappearing post and post manipulation. I don't know who was doing it but it was happening and as I stated there was an off forum discussion site concerning that.

Find me another member that witnessed that. The only thread that got posts deleted was the KBA thread and AJ was the one doing that.
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