The Philadelphia Experiment And Montauk Project

[golf sierra]

bielek-debunked.com was not setup by an ex-business partner of Al Bielek. This domain is registered to me, and the web site is not about revenge.
It was put up because Bielek's claims were just parroted on the web with nobody looking or asking for any evidence to support his stories.
So a small group of interested people got together and decided to put Bielek's claims to a test, which obviously he failed to 100 %.

That much about bielek-debunked.com.

Cheers,

GS

[golf sierra]

You might have mixed it up with bielek.com, which is owned by Michael Houtzager, a former busines partner of Al Bielek. They indeed separated long ago and Bielek claims that Houtzager had betrayed him.

[Richard]

Thanks for the correction about the site owners.

[Octahedron]

You might have mixed it up with bielek.com, which is owned by Michael Houtzager, a former busines partner of Al Bielek. They indeed separated long ago and Bielek claims that Houtzager had betrayed him.

I have a big article from Houtzager where he interviews the Swerdlows, and there it seems Houtzager gives the Swerdlows all room to speak.

But years later, at many websites, it seems Houtzager also debunks the Swerdlows, but that's the internet, and it has to be investigated for sure what Houtzager is doing exactly.

[Octahedron]

It was put up because Bielek's claims were just parroted on the web with nobody looking or asking for any evidence to support his stories.

???????  parroted ??? I see much more sabotage against anybody who wants to discuss things Bielek is telling about than parroting.

[user=1102]golf sierra[/user] wrote:

So a small group of interested people got together and decided to put Bielek's claims to a test, which obviously he failed to 100 %.

Again ????? 100% ????? obviously ? ????

So, why then putting so much effort in to debunk Bielek instead of facilitating information, access and knowledge that brings more insights in what he is telling ? 

What counts for me is the intention to find the truth, debunking has no any value for me if there is no alternative serious explanation told by the so called debunkers.. 

[golf sierra]

@ [user=13]Octahedron[/user]

Parroted ?
Yes, just do a quick search on google or yahoo and almost everything that shows up are transcripts of various Bielek interviews, copied over and over as well as quotes from books that he wrote together with Preston Nichols.
And if the web site owners added some more text, it is just about taking Bielek's claims 100% for granted, no one asking for evidence.

So, why then putting so much effort in to debunk Bielek instead of facilitating information, access and knowledge that brings more insights in what he is telling ? What counts for me is the intention to find the truth, debunking has no any value for me if there is no alternative serious explanation told by the so called debunkers..

bielek-debunked.com is full of sources and telling everybody how Bielek's claims can be disproved. We named our sources and told what we did to find out about Bielek lying. Read yourself. What else of "facilitating information, access and knowledge that brings more insights in what he is telling" do you expect to see ??

About the intention for thruth, yes that was exactly our motivation to put up bielek-debunked.com.
We still don't hold enough information to clearly prove or disprove the existance of the Philadelphia Experiment, that is whether it really happened or not, however, Bielek never was a part of it and never was involved. That is for sure now.

[Rebel]

bielek-debunked.com is full of sources and telling everybody how Bielek's claims can be disproved. We named our sources and told what we did to find out about Bielek lying. Read yourself. What else of "facilitating information, access and knowledge that brings more insights in what he is telling" do you expect to see ??

About the intention for thruth, yes that was exactly our motivation to put up bielek-debunked.com.
We still don't hold enough information to clearly prove or disprove the existance of the Philadelphia Experiment, that is whether it really happened or not, however, Bielek never was a part of it and never was involved. That is for sure now.

The bielek-debunked website did a good job of refuting Al Bielek's statements and claims, but not as good a job refuting the WingMakers website. Yes, some of the WingMakers' material is questionable, but other parts are fascinating. The WingMakers' and its sister website, Lyricus.org, are still going strong and continue to put up new material each year.

[golf sierra]

You may not have read the section of bielek-debunked.com regarding the wingmakers fake in detail. See here

December 2, 1998: WingMakers' Webmaster -- Mark Hempel's Posting
http://www.caus.org/updates/cu120298b.shtml
In this post Hempel is alleged to have revealed in a video art newsgroup that his web site is in fact an entertainment concept.
(Note: Mark Hempel's posting can be read here: http://groups.google.com/groups?oi=djq&selm=an_415220848 )

and look for the groups.google.com link.

This email by Mark Hempel himself clearly identifies his web site wingmakers.com as fake or as marketing ploy.

After reading this, one should not invest another minute in reading the stuff that is shown on wingmaker.com - Hempel clearly stated that

"I created the site to be the blueprint for a film or TV series. It's taken 3
years to produce all of the content. I created everything you'll see on the
site. It's completed integrated. I call this Immersive Multimedia Art Forms
(IMAF)."

Yes, some of the WingMakers' material is questionable, but other parts are fascinating.

Well, it's not the question if it is fascinating or not, it's the question 'is it real or not'. It's not real, so why wasting time on it ?

Forget about the wingmakers....

[golf sierra]

In addition, do a lookup for the domain wingmakers.com, and you will find yourself that it is listed as e-commerce:

Current Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC. IP Address: 216.149.120.143 (ARIN & RIPE IP search) IP Location: US(UNITED STATES) Record Type: Domain Name Server Type: IIS 5 Lock Status: clientDeleteProhibited Web Site Status: Active DMOZ 1 listings Y! Directory: see listings Web Site Title: Welcome to Wingmakers Secure: No E-commerce: Yes Traffic Ranking: 4 Data as of: 06-Feb-2006

[Octahedron]

@ [user=13]Octahedron[/user]

Parroted ?
Yes, just do a quick search on google or yahoo and almost everything that shows up are transcripts of various Bielek interviews, copied over and over as well as quotes from books that he wrote together with Preston Nichols.
And if the web site owners added some more text, it is just about taking Bielek's claims 100% for granted, no one asking for evidence.

So, why then putting so much effort in to debunk Bielek instead of facilitating information, access and knowledge that brings more insights in what he is telling ? What counts for me is the intention to find the truth, debunking has no any value for me if there is no alternative serious explanation told by the so called debunkers..

bielek-debunked.com is full of sources and telling everybody how Bielek's claims can be disproved. We named our sources and told what we did to find out about Bielek lying. Read yourself. What else of "facilitating information, access and knowledge that brings more insights in what he is telling" do you expect to see ??

About the intention for thruth, yes that was exactly our motivation to put up bielek-debunked.com.
We still don't hold enough information to clearly prove or disprove the existance of the Philadelphia Experiment, that is whether it really happened or not, however, Bielek never was a part of it and never was involved. That is for sure now.

I don't mean search with Google or so, I mean speak for yourself  ! i.e. start a discussion on an average forum or even scientific forum, or straight : talk with so called "scientists"about Philadelphia Expperiment without a pro/anti-Bielek position, just THINK, and soon you will be banned, ridiculed, attacked or maybe worse .... !! 

Parroting versus free speach ? free talk is what counts, not the number of Googles statistics. Real free talks which are really relevant are NOT counted by Google and banned everywhere.  I will never discuss with any mind-controlled scientist about PE or Montauk or so, because that's losing time.

Bielek who is Bielek ??? That's part of mystery, timelines, persons, space are illusions;

Yes, that's the core of the problem; we can't prove a thing with a theory (i.e official science) if the theory itself is uncertain or full of confusion.