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***Golden Winged SnakeOiLion*** · 09-28-2011, 04:09 PM

[user=1307]xanthas[/user] wrote:

Quote:Well, I get your point that you'd like the 'evidence' of Collier's claims, but GSWOL has only called him a 'good actor' and a BS artist and that he's not a bona fide contactee. On what grounds?

First: You can not prove a negative. You should have gotten this with the whole Expansions issue. If you knew anything about critical thinking, you would not ask that. I can not prove that he is *not* a contactee, that is why *he* has to come up with the proof that he is. After all, started whole Andromeda thing. At least Crowley offered a code that could only be broken by someone who understood the contact. Alex Collier offered nothing like this.

Second: The info he refers is nothing I can not get otherwise. I can get this info in every new age shop or hippie community (or by reading the bible or thinking hard). If there was regular contact with an advanced race, there needs to be more than "you have to be self responsible" or "there will be quakes".

Third: There are indicators that he is a fraud. His accent thing is most dubious. Also his predictions were off. New York is not in ashes, and parts of Japan have not sunk. There is not a definite world government. And that is what he said. That's what I call a BS artist. That is my definition of it. You'll have to live with that. Sorry.

And finally this guy appears to be making a movie with Joe Vitale from "The Secret". And he wants me to believe him to be a genuine contactee with Andromeda.

Quote:GWSOL's dislike of AC and barking at me to 'put up or shut up'! Naughty Italiano! Woof! Grrrrrr!

I leave that dog-association as it is, uncommented.

***Sifter*** · 09-28-2011, 04:18 PM

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderSer...&x=70&y=13

I wish I had the energy to followup on the research needed to find out why "Collier" served time, but I don't.

***xanthas*** · 09-28-2011, 04:42 PM

[user=1346]Golden Winged SnakeOiLion[/user] wrote:

Quote:First: You can not prove a negative. You should have gotten this with the whole Expansions issue. If you knew anything about critical thinking, you would not ask that. I can not prove that he is *not* a contactee, that is why *he* has to come up with the proof that he is. After all, started whole Andromeda thing. At least Crowley offered a code that could only be broken by someone who understood the contact. Alex Collier offered nothing like this.

Peculiarly, one could use the argument here as a point in case to say 'ok, he can't prove anything at all', therefore, because you asked such an obvious question, you have not learned anything out of your experience with Expansions...you are not able to think critically... So...uhmmm...no... then I agree, I am not able to think as you do. I don't know though, whether that is a good or bad thing. Whatcha reckon?

What Crowley has anything to do with Collier is past me. Yes, I'm slow.... Likewise for your 'idiom analogy' in your previous reply. That response of yours did not warrant mine... I KNOW the term! Why you would need a 'key' to "decipher" what Collier says...would you be any smarter for it? Would that then not lead to more open debates as to how to apply the key?

What's that you said? Oh, yeah, Expansions and 'Hyperspace bollocks'! Talk about 'interpretation' of symbology ('key'). I'm bored already.

Quote:Third: There are indicators that he is a fraud. His accent thing is most dubious.

Actually, Michael Horn makes the same observation (since you keep insisting that you have nothing in common in your dislike for Alex Collier...). Just driving it home to ya, ragazzo! The only video where his accent is different is the one you posted. Maybe Richard can chime in and give his input as a native speaker of American English. Other than that, his accent has not changed safe for that one video.

Quote:Also his predictions were off. New York is not in ashes

Oh really? You forget 9/11. Or does that not count? That was plenty of ashes... And yes, he made that prediction prior to 9/11, in the late 90s.

Quote:parts of Japan have not sunk.

Oh yes? Who says? Just because you haven't read about it, doesn't mean that Japan has not at least to some degree 'sunk' into the ocean. It's an island after all...

Quote:There is not a definite world government. And that is what he said.

Ahhhhwww...shame eh? Damn, if you still haven't figured out by now that the NWO is already here, I don't know what it takes for you to snap out of your lullaby. The NWO was ushered in well and truly after the 9/11 incident. That was the opening ouverture in case you missed it. Yes, one would have had to live in the US to really get that... And even those that have witnessed this '24/7' real-life drama still can't get their heads around it. But rest assured, the world gov't is in full swing... You just do not 'see' it. But it's here. Berlusconi is part of it. The pope. Merkel, Sarko-CIA-zy, the IMF, what is going on at the moment in Europe....

Wake up!

Quote:You'll have to live with that. Sorry.

Ahhhwww, I'm gonna start cryin' any minute now... Point is, we all have to live with what is going on at this stage. You are included, ragazzo. Capice? No exceptions.

Quote:And he wants me to believe him to be a genuine contactee with Andromeda.

Did he say so to you? I don't think so. As a matter of fact, from what I could read from that Michael Horn link, Collier doesn't care what you think. He's been called names all right.

I do agree with you that Joe Vitale is a scam artist who sells books by the buckload... When I had the opportunity to see 'The Secret' on big screen scope, I actually missed most of it because I fell asleep shortly after the movie had started and only woke up shortly before it ended.

Mind you, I don't think I missed much!

And, to get back to Expansions compared to AC, true BS artists milk their 'BS' for all its worth. Where's the money? All that moolah that AC ought to have made from 'selling' it to the gullible... Oh yeah, and the keys to 'deciphering' the messages... Now, where are those keys...?!? They were here just a few minutes ago!

Show me the money, and maybe, I'll start taking your arguments seriously...

No tengo dinero, eh!

***xanthas*** · 09-28-2011, 04:47 PM

Sifter Wrote:I wish I had the energy to followup on the research needed to find out why "Collier" served time, but I don't.

I saw that one, too Sifter. The question is; why was was he locked up? On what grounds?

***xanthas*** · 09-28-2011, 04:50 PM

Sifter Wrote:why someone would have reason to believe (believe is the key word here) that Collier is a fraud... that being that people are operating solely on their "feelings" and "resonance"...

Hm...good question... I suppose that a lot of what he has said in his latest one and a half hour video (the one I posted under the Icke thread in the Senior members section) were truths that I've come upon myself - if in a different manner than AC.

**Richard** · 09-28-2011, 07:40 PM

xanthas Wrote:
Sifter Wrote:That's backwards thinking. It's Alex Collier's/Ralph's task to PROVIDE the evidence to prove his story has merit.
Is it? I don't take anybody's so-called claims of whatever their strange experiences might have been as 'solid gold'... If that's what you're alluding to. They tell their story and when it resonates - at the core - with what I feel to be genuine, then I'll give it more 'attention'.

I agree with xanthas on this one. Too many people today have forgotten how to use their second mind. Their intuition. Their gut instinct. I think it's a crock of sh*t for people to say if you can't prove it then it isn't true. That's BS. If I seen Bigfoot but had no photos, does that mean I didn't see Bigfoot? People need to learn to expand themselves and quit relying only on their eyes and logic as their only means of judging things.

***Sifter*** · 09-28-2011, 10:02 PM

It's not the first time I've felt like I was on the wrong planet.

It's still a ridiculous stance to ask a non believer to prove that the story teller is lieing!... when what is being told has no evidence to back it up!!! I doubt that even Collier expects others to believe him.

It's up to the presenter to offer evidence of their story.
And if they can't, it's a "given" that you can expect mockers especially when you go public.

Xanthas wrote: "don't take anybody's so-called claims of whatever their strange experiences might have been as 'solid gold'... If that's what you're alluding to. They tell their story and when it resonates - at the core - with what I feel to be genuine, then I'll give it more 'attention'."

I think we DO agree on that! YOu give it more attention to it (like we did with Swerdlow for example) but you still have a "window of doubt" because you know you're riding on another's word and we know where that can get cha sometimes.

**Richard** · 09-28-2011, 11:46 PM

Sifter Wrote:It's up to the presenter to offer evidence of their story.
And if they can't, it's a "given" that you can expect mockers especially when you go public.

You always can't produce evidence. The is no hard evidence that Roswell happened. A skeptic could say all the witnesses were lying because they have no proof. So if you have no proof to your story you are saying the person shouldn't talk about it. That's ridiculous. People should share what they know regardless if they have proof or not and let people at least hear it. It's natural skeptics won't believe because they are unable to judge things without proof but people with intuition will be able to judge it.

I find it sad and frustrating that so many people are Paranormally Challenged. Many people these days have lost touch with their own intuitive abilities and are extremely skeptical of anyone's ability to access any higher source of knowledge. As a culture we seem to be paranormally challenged. We have become so dependent on modern technology and scientific proof that we no longer understand or appreciate the kind of spirit wisdom that was venerated by our ancestors.

***Sifter*** · 09-29-2011, 03:14 AM

Ok, let's back up here.
Xanthas wrote: "I still would like to know how one can prove that Alex/Ralph has made up what he has shared."

They CAN'T. That's the problem. Alex can't prove he's telling the truth anymore than a doubter can prove he isn't.
That's the point. The BURDEN of proof lies with the story teller NOT the audience.

If that doesn't make sense to anyone, then I'm the lone ranger. lol

**Richard** · 09-29-2011, 04:02 AM

No one is saying the burden of proof lies with the audience. He put the info out there and it's up to the audience to believe him or not. I'm saying it's ridiculous for skeptics to say if a person doesn't have hard facts then they should shut up. If a skeptic doesn't want to believe that's fine but they shouldn't get all bent out of shape when intuitive people believe. That's what I don't understand, why do skeptics get so upset when other people believe? It's no skin off their nose. If you don't want to believe move onto something they do believe. Don't try and derail threads where people believe.