Logical Fallacies and the Alex Collier debate (or KBA for that matter)

[Golden Winged SnakeOiLion]

I thought I use a part of the list of the most common logical fallacies and apply them to the KBA or Alex Collier case. Just thought it would be fun. Logical thinking helped me think for myself more and helped me detect when I tend to substitute other thoughts for my own. I used the list from this site (only a part , because I don't have much time this week):

http://www.oxfordtutorials.com/logical_fallacies.htm

I put my thoughts in parentheses, where it fit a similar case in my experience. Maybe you guys play around with your own thoughts. It's a nice game.


LOGICAL FALLACIES (20)

A. Fallacies of Distraction

1. Ad baculum (‘veiled threat’): L. "to the stick:"
Def- threatening an opponent if they won’t agree with you;
Ex- "If you don’t agree with me you’ll be sorry!"

( "If you don't agree with me, I trash you on Expansions.com" )


2. Ad hominem (‘personal attack’; ‘poisoning the well’): L. "to the man;"
Def- attacking a person’s habits, personality, or reputation;
Ex- "His argument must be false because people say he’s a liar."

(" He's programmed ")

3. Ad ignorantium (‘appeal to ignorance’): L. “to ignorance”
Def- arguing that if something hasn’t been proved false, then it must be true;
Ex- "U.F.Os must exist, because no one can prove that they don’t."

( " Alex Collier is a genuine contactee, because GWSOL cannot prove otherwise" )

4. Ad populum (‘popularity appeal’): L. "to the people"
Def- appealing to the emotions and/or prejudices of a group;
Ex- "Everyone believes in global warming so it must be true."


( "Alex Collier is doing it for free, so it must be true")


5. Bulverism: (named for C.S. Lewis’s imaginary character: Ezekiel Bulver)
Def- attacking a person’s identity (race/gender/religion);
Ex- "You only think that because you’re a (man/woman; Black/White;
     Catholic/Baptist; Democrat/Republican; Christian/Atheist; etc.)"


( " GWSOL is a sceptic " )


6. Chronological Snobbery (Ad annis: L. “to the years”)
Def- appealing to the age of something as proof or disproof of its truth;
Ex-"Sin and hell are so old-fashioned—how can you believe such antiquated
     ideas?  Today you should realize that you’ve got to believe in yourself.”

- insert your own -


7. Ipse dixit  (‘false authority’): L. "He said it himself"
Def- appealing to an illegitimate authority;
Ex- "Global warming must be true because the Vice President said so."


( " Alex Collier said that there is a craft in the atmosphere so it must be true  " )


8. Red herring (‘changing the subject’):
Def- diverting attention; changing the subject to avoid the point of the argument;
Ex- "You can’t accuse our public schools of failing.  That’s unpatriotic!"

( " GWSOL is not spiritual and is Italian  " )


9. Straw Man (‘misrepresentation’):
Def- misrepresenting the opponent's argument; exaggerating or oversimplifying
Ex- "Einstein's theory must be false!  It makes everything relative--even truth!"

( " Put up or shut up means shut up  " )


10. Tu quoque: L. "You also"
Def- defending yourself by attacking the opponent
Ex- "Who are you to condemn anyone?  Do you claim to be perfect?"

( " Why does GWSOL not write ebooks or publish on this topic himself ? " )

[Sifter]

I must have burned too many brain cells again but what is GWSOL?

[Sifter]

nevermind..... golden winged snake oil lion.... sorry for the interruption

[Golden Winged SnakeOiLion]

No problem. I could have used better examples and may do so soon, but I was in a hurry ;)

nevermind..... golden winged snake oil lion.... sorry for the interruption

[yukesam]

Interesting post GWSOL,

Yeah right there side by side, with no regard or respect to the cause or the surrounding, but continue to mimic you and intimidate you because of its own immaturity and for its' miserable personal entertainment , quite annoying indeed.

One day the guard will grab it by the neck and will throw it into the dung pit and it will cry and say this life sucks for me.

[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/xDPK1kPWj1E&feature=player_embedded&hl=en&fs=1[/flash]

[xanthas]

Waat ee Schrott!

Daat do ass dee gréissten Blödsinn deen ech bis elo hei gelies hun. Egaal waat.

GWSOL. Yes, you are right! Alex is a fraud, a shill, a BS artist, a 'good actor'.

Whatever. Are you happy now?

And of course you are much more capable of 'logical discernment', intellectual hairsplitting and whatever else you've mentioned in your bizarre post to 'make a point'.

And of course you have it all figured out! Right??!!

I actually was yawning as I was reading it - that's how boring and pretentious it came across as.

What an utterly stupid idea to compare KBA with AC. Why don't you add Jesus Christ in the mix for good measure, eh? As a good, 'spiritual' Christian Italian (you say yourself) you really should have included him in that 'club' of BS artists.

Because for some people JC is a figment of their imagination as well.

Gonzo. Quel con!

[Golden Winged SnakeOiLion]

LOL!! Why even write this?? I know already!! Of course you *have* to think that. You do not verify *anything*. Of course this thread must look stupid to you. You rather stay gullible and in the not-know.

Here are some of Alex Collier's  predictions in "Defending Sacred Ground". I leave that uncommented. (It's real schrott)

Earth Changes from the Andromedan Perspective

Figuring in the Expulsion of ET Races by 2003:

[1] Between June and October 2003, there is a strong probability that we will wake up one morning and the moon will no longer be there. The moon is in fact an artificial satellite and there are many many bases on it.

[2] Between 2003 and 2007, the benevolent races are supposedly going to be all around us. We will see them, but they will not interfere. They want to see how we interact with each other without manipulation. They want to see if we continue the same behavior, because they do not want to come down here and compound the problem or baby-sit. We don't need a baby-sitter - we need the truth, and we have to have the guts to stand up and ask the questions, and keep asking them until we get the answer. We all have to do it, because if we all stand together, we can't lose. On the other hand, if they are successful in dividing us , we're toast. Divide and conquer. Divide and conquer. How many stories in history do you have to see? You can't be divided and expect to remain as One. It doesn't happen.

[3] Between 2004 and 2007, all of our DNA coding which involves all the racial memory of 22 races our DNA is composed of will unlock. By 2007, everyone will have full memory of who they are, where they came from and what you want to do. You will know what you soul-lesson is and your reason for being here.

[4] Between 2007 and 2012, we are supposed to see the birth of a galaxy in Vega, just before we move into 5th density.


[5] Between 2007 and 2009, if it is allowed to happen naturally, we are supposed to have a 17 degree pole shift. Saudi Arabia is supposed to become the new North Pole, which is great. Bury those oil fields nice and deep. We will have free energy by then, anyway. North America is supposed to be on the equator.

[6] By the year 2000, you are going to hear more and more reports of "ghosts", because what is happening is that the frequency which will be hitting the planet, which is God, will be raising the vibration. Third and Fourth density will be getting closer together as 3rd density starts to implode. What this means is that the molecules in our body will begin to speed up. You are not dead matter. You will be passing out of 3rd and into 4th, on our way to 5th, and passing all the consciousness that has not evolved or chooses not to.


[7] There is a possibility that between 1996 and 1997, one third of Japan is going to sink below the ocean. [Response from audience member: "I just got a report from a friend of mine who came back from India, that Sai Baba on his 70th birthday there advised a Japanese group there to leave Japan]. The Kobe earthquake was manufactured, because the Japanese government will not sell out its people to the New World Order. They will not make their people take an implant. They are being made an example of. http://www.andromedaninsights.com/dsg1/chapter1.html (20 of 29) [9/18/2000 6:39:02 PM] Economically, the Japanese are tough, but they don't turn on their own people.

[8] There is a high probability that in July 2003, we will also have a magnetic pole shift, and it will be the first one in 4,671years. This will impact all electromagnetic devices on the planet. Animals will be lost. It will throw off everything.

[9] Between 1996 and 2012, some of us on the planet are going to be fluctuating between optically being visible and non-visible on a physical basis. Fluctuating between dimensions. There are five individuals on the planet who do this already. Many of them will be children, who will reveal what they have learned during their fluctuation in order to try and help their parents get there. Many children born today already have 3 strands of DNA. I am told you don't need the other strands. All we need is one more, and its all happening. It's happening naturally. If you open yourself up and allow free movement of love in you life, it will happen within you. If you restrict yourself, hold yourself back and move into denial, you will be suppressing the energy that is coming in, and you will create disease. This is going to effect the men, more than the women. The male thought pattern of being logical is past - it is time to try something different.

Q: Do you mean that the men are going to have to express their "womanhood?"

AC: Yes, that's exactly what I mean. They are going to have to move out of the masculine dominated world role and into a more nurturing role, not only with Self but with everyone else. It will be a tough lesson for men, because of all the out-of-balance role models that they have been exposed to and had to put up with. They need to be more in balance. We have to make the effort. Again, it comes down to intent.


[10] We are going to have to become more responsible and exercise our free will, because there are going to be earth changes. People that live on coastal areas have a problem. The oceans are going to rise at least 200 feet between 1996 and 2008. The ice cap at the South Pole is going to slip. The ocean will not reach Denver, but will get as far as Lake Mead in the West. Most of the East coast will be all right except for areas in Florida and an area in Georgia. The panhandle of Texas will be under water for two years.

[11] Around 2011, our Sun will undergo a 180 degree pole shift. It is literally going to turn on its axis.

[12] All of the continents which border the Pacific will be affected by tidal waves because of eruptions of volcanoes in the ocean. The French nuclear test in December created a seven mile long crack in the crust at the bottom of the ocean. These people are crazy, folks, absolutely crazy. We know how to destroy ourselves. We have that down to a science. We don't need to be testing these. We can't use them anyway.

[13] Within the next 10 years, the major cities in the United States will be under quarantine because of the spread of tuberculosis. The average life expectancy of men in the inner city will be 43 years of age. For women, it will be 55. You are going to see the end of welfare, free medical, county services, etc., because everybody will be bankrupt. Again, this is all be design. Many people will be moving out to communities outside cities, growing their own food, and having their own private police forces. So, those of us who make these choices are going to be stepping back into the 1800's. Horse and buggies, and hopefully free energy.

[Editor Note: In the January 24, 1996 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association, page 305, a report entitled "Transmission of Tuberculosis Among the Urban Homeless indicated that "a remarkably high frequency of primary tuberculosis was found when no specific TB outbreak was identified in central Los Angeles." A precursor of things to come? Furthermore, in the same issue of JAMA, a report entitled "WHO Strategy for Emerging Infectious Diseases" indicated that "the return of known scourges like tuberculosis are in a state of flux globally" (p.318) Val]

Now, we are being told that there are too many people on the planet. According to the Andromedans, if we didn't waste out natural resources, the planet could hold a population of 11 billion. What we are actually being told by the propaganda machine is that there are too many people. Now, a planet with 11 billion spiritually-awakened people cannot be controlled. Such a planet would change the harmonic frequency of the planet, the solar system and the galaxy. That vibration would be love, and the bad guys don't like that. It all starts here. We are being told that there are too many people. It's a lie. Our leaders are so corrupt that the systems they have are breaking down. But, these systems are not real, in a sense. Instead of acting responsibly, releasing control and letting people take more self-responsibility, the corrupt leaders in the world want to kill off the population in an attempt to maintain status quo. They want to extinguish 50% of the planetary population so that they can maintain their control. Now, who died and made them God? [Editor Note: Harvard studies have put earths population capacity at 44 billion].

xanthas wrote:

Waat ee Schrott!

Daat do ass dee gréissten Blödsinn deen ech bis elo hei gelies hun. Egaal waat.

GWSOL. Yes, you are right! Alex is a fraud, a shill, a BS artist, a 'good actor'.

Whatever. Are you happy now?

And of course you are much more capable of 'logical discernment', intellectual hairsplitting and whatever else you've mentioned in your bizarre post to 'make a point'.

And of course you have it all figured out! Right??!!

I actually was yawning as I was reading it - that's how boring and pretentious it came across as.

What an utterly stupid idea to compare KBA with AC. Why don't you add Jesus Christ in the mix for good measure, eh? As a good, 'spiritual' Christian Italian (you say yourself) you really should have included him in that 'club' of BS artists.

Because for some people JC is a figment of their imagination as well.

Gonzo. Quel con!

[Golden Winged SnakeOiLion]

Thanks for this post and video. It shows you can not be disrespectful all the time. Someday it is going right into the dung pit. ;)

Interesting post GWSOL,

Yeah right there side by side, with no regard or respect to the cause or the surrounding, but continue to mimic you and intimidate you because of its own immaturity and for its' miserable personal entertainment , quite annoying indeed.

One day the guard will grab it by the neck and will throw it into the dung pit and it will cry and say this life sucks for me.

[xanthas]

GWSOL, can you start to quote properly - for a change? It's rather irritating to have to read my response after you write your reply...

[user=1346]Golden Winged SnakeOiLion[/user] wrote:

LOL!! Why even write this?? I know already!! Of course you *have* to think that. You do not verify *anything*.

No, I don't "verify" everything - not 'any'-thing.

I'll give your ego some more boost - as a good Italian macho ragazzo, I know Italian men need to have their ego stroked (à la Berlusconi, no é vero?!?):

Yes, I don't *think*. Sta bene?

You rather stay gullible and in the not-know.

Of course, you win GWSOL. Hands down. Sono una ragazza stupida. No goody two shoes, ignorant, dumb, and gullible and I haven't learned anything from my Expansions experience, eh?!?

I'm a "know nuthin'" chica. You feel better already? Yeah, I can see, you've just grown another 10 cm. If you're not careful you won't fit through your door no more!

Big head.

Here are some of Alex Collier's predictions in "Defending Sacred Ground". I leave that uncommented. (It's real schrott)

Yes, I agree, a lot of what he said as to the predictions has not come to pass. And I did not take the time to read the whole Andromedan Earth perspectives (where's the link BTW?). I don't have the time to read EVERYthing I am interested in because I would not get anything else done!

What I liked about AC is what he has to share as I have mentioned elsewhere and which does not seem to get through your thick skull is more of the [color="#0055aa"]spiritual[/color] nature because it resonates with my own experiences and discoveries I have had  - outside of Expansions or HCF or before I ever heard of Alex Collier and that nobody has been able to put across in such a succinct fashion due to my own spiritual process and work. It's been seven years since I left the Expansions experience behind me, so it's not like I haven't done anything else in between. That would be terribly sad. And, no, I did not join another cult or whatever you might have imagined I would do as such a 'gullible' and "know nothing" chick.

Is he BS artist? Maybe. Part of what he says strikes me as absolutely real and sound.

But you ain't gong to be able to completely make him look the same as Stewart or Janet - because that's what you've been driving at here with your ridiculous off-the-cuff KBA analogy. It's not working.

So, yes, for you he's a BS artist - as he may be for Sifter who can't seem to make up her mind what to think. If I may take the liberty to remind you - Stewart is not a spiritual man. Doesn't have a spiritual fibre in his entire body. And contrary to your assumption, I have not made Alex my 'new guru'. I've long since come off that 'trip'. Ultimately, we have to become our own guru, learn to completely trust ourselves in what we feel to be real and genuine. And Alex does emphasise that. 'to truly believe in ourselves, to remind us what we are capable of but too often get stuck in our own dogmas and become our own worst enemy in the process.

That's the kind of message I am referring to. The depth of them. The substance. The predictions are crap but the other messages are genuinely touching a deeper sense of purpose than the mere "it's all lovey dovey, hanky panky, easy peasy" of the other regular new age crowd 'speakers' and true BS artists. Because it's not. It's anything but. It's bloody ugly. And you, boy, haven't even begun to catch on to how bad it really is. The fact that you have not yet understood that the NWO is already here just makes me wonder how 'sharp' and "awake" you really are. Seems to me, you've been snoring away during too many siestas, ragazzo!

You have bought into the fact that I am still gullible and I don't "think" - lazy cow that I am !

No, you got it all right, right? Italiano?

You feel better now? Gonzo.

[Sifter]

Xanthas you are just downright effin' rude k?
Let's just make a pact not to discuss anyone other than Swerdlow. Why do any of us care what someone else chooses to believe anyway?

I think we all pretty much know that AC talks some good talk but like you said, you don't have to be a contactee or to have come across AC to arrive at those sentiments of responsibility here and NOW on this earth plane and the hard work it takes to examine ones' self. etc etc